You know good and well there would be no negotiation no matter what conservatives who are leaving did. Virginia had negotiations…and those were undone by our Presiding Bishop, according to her own testimony in the trial this week.
The reason the Dioceses are following their own constitutions in amending their constitutions is because of state law and canon law. If it was canon law alone, well, see my response to ****** below regarding the amount of deference liberals traditionally have given our canons.
I realize I’ve told you this before, but the Dennis Canon trust will work in some jurisdictions and not in others. The reason why is that the trust, without the actual assent in the real property records, remains open to legal question. Without the express assent of the settlor of the trust (ie. the parish, the non-profit corporation that holds title to the property, or what have you depending on the myriad of configurations we have out there, which is anything but uniform across the church), there will always be legal questions that can be raised about whether the trust is complete.
As a conservative in a conservative Diocese that is not in ACN, who has been on this listerv for three years, I feel that I have been “characterized as on the other side of
truth, counterfeit Christians deserving of public rebuke, agents of the devil,” by you and others on this listerv and throughout the liberal wing of the church. While I have some sympathy for poor liberals stuck in conservative Dioceses, my inclination is simply to say, tough noogies, that’s life, get over it. Why in the world should liberals be given quarter in one of the few conservative Dioceses since conservatives have been given none in the national church or in liberal Dioceses?
Considering that the liberal wing of our church has now become one of canonical fundamentalism as it suits the purposes of today, when in the case of the Philadelphia 11 or the numerous times bishops have knowingly ordained people who were involved in sexual relationships outside of heterosexual marriage, canons were discarded also to suit the purposes of that day, it is safe to say that canons are disregarded or raised up as sacrosanct depending on when it serves a particular side’s purposes. Why didn’t the Philadelphia 11 wait a few months until after the next GC? Because their cause was “just” and expediency triumphed over process. If conservatives are violating canons, they are simply borrowing from the liberal play book. So, frankly, when a liberal cries canon foul, I think it is a big “so what.”
Regarding what I will call security concerns: Last month, a depressed and possibly mentally unbalanced man walked into a law office and short his former divorce attorney, a secretary, and a mail man. I reviewed the docket on the man’s case, and no adverse action had been taken against him in a family law matter, but a hearing was set. The attorney who was killed was a Christian man and had one him no wrong. The sad part is, in today’s world, these things happen. I recently attended an Inn of Court meeting where a criminal psychologist talked to us lawyers about identifying folks who would do something like come in a law office and start blowing people away. However, the psychologist also admitted that the murder in the law office in October, well, he wouldn’t have picked up on the impending danger if he had met with him. The guy had family support, was a deacon in a small baptist church, married, retired with a pension.
I think Brother ********* has a better understanding of the situation than most on the list. I would also state that, before the Alexandria Police Department moved their headquarters to across the street from our downtown church, we routinely hired Sheriff’s deputies to provide security on Wednesday nights and during other evening activities at our church. The deputies were armed with only guns, not even tasers.
In today’s world, we just don’t know what might happen. I will say this – I could see how our current disputes in the Episcopal Church could lead someone over the edge and have them shoot somebody. The mere fact that someone’s ex-wife MIGHT get a percentage of a pension led to the murder of a postman. For no good reason at all.
Now, I am not trying to inspire fear here. What I am saying is be fools for Christ…but don’t be stupid – especially when it comes to security nowadays.
However, the repeated blathering on about guns and Stand Firm is just plain silly. I don’t think anyone saying that about the folks over at that site advocate gun violence have ever met them or talked with them face to face, with the exception of one person who does have posting rights over there in addition to his own blog. Wonder who thought could be. Could it be…
Lay, Western Louisiana